So I finally dropped some $$$ on a professional fit. We ended up making some small changes, mainly lift the seat up 10mm and set back another 10mm plus some comfort adjustments at the front. My cleats were adjusted as well and they were moved back 3mm.
We took measurements on the left and right side and noticed a difference in knee angle. So, we looked at the saddle the fitter noticed that one of the prongs on my Adamo Prologue was slightly bent down and we straightened it out (by bending in the opposite direction). Even after we made this change there was still a difference between L&R of 3 degrees: left knee angle @ extension: 38 vs 41 degrees on the right.
The fitter suggested switching to a different saddle but they are a small shop not associated with an LBS and their selection of saddles was limited to mostly road specific ones and few choices so I decided not to switch. We also did a computrainer spin scan which showed a power imbalance of 53L-47R. This is also consistent with what my Power2Max PM reports on most rides.
So I have a few questions:
Should I be concerned about the difference in knee angle at extension and go about replacing the saddle? Could this be why I have this power imbalance issue?
What other saddles should I consider? The ISM Prologue I have is fairly comfortable so is there anything out there that’s similar to it I should try?
Unrelated to the knee angle thing, the Retul measurements showed I have a hip angle (at TDC) of 43 degrees. Is this considered to be fairly low / aggressive and should I look at options to open it up further? My back angle (from level) was 18 degrees so not exactly flat but fairly low and I’m riding 170 cranks.
I got a retul fit and have the same issues of knee extension differences. My fitter said to not worry about it. You probably just favor one side of the saddle and thus opens one side of your hips and thus kinda closes the other hip. By doing this, it affects your pedal stroke and its “smoothness” probably. I am trying to be aware my positioning on the saddle and where i distribute my weight on the aero bars as well as working on 1 leg drills and increasing the range of motion on the closed hip. This doesn’t really help but just letting you know i have same issue and a seat won’t necessarily help, its more of a body mechanics and weight distribution issue.
Isnt the preferred back angle dependent on the race distance for which you are training? Not specifically you, but would like to hear other responses to back angle recommendations
In my case we didn’t change the back angle during the fit. I came to that angle through trial and error and for me it’s pretty much the lowest I can go without getting low back pain. I can ride this position for 3+ hours without any issues. Ultimately this is the position I want to ride at IMFL in November so I have plenty of time to continue to adapt until then.
Thanks for the info. Does anyone out there have the recommended back angle ranges for different race distances? I know it’s very individualistic. I’ve seen the ranges before but can’t seem to find
Thanks for the info. Does anyone out there have the recommended back angle ranges for different race distances? I know it’s very individualistic. I’ve seen the ranges before but can’t seem to find
You probably don’t want to target specific angles. Back angle isn’t a fiting “driver”, it’s a result of your fit. As you said, it is very individualistic. -J
when I got my fit I was told that for half/full IM distance the angle range is typically 20-30 degrees depending on the rider, and for aggressive TT’s and sprint/oly it is between 15-25 degrees. I settled on 22/23 degree angle for general training and racing. my fitter wanted me to go much lower since I’m doing a lot of TT’ing this year, but I didn’t want to keep adjusting my bike for long rides and races.
We took measurements on the left and right side and noticed a difference in knee angle. So, we looked at the saddle the fitter noticed that one of the prongs on my Adamo Prologue was slightly bent down and we straightened it out (by bending in the opposite direction). Even after we made this change there was still a difference between L&R of 3 degrees: left knee angle @ extension: 38 vs 41 degrees on the right.
I haven’t read through any of the responses yet, but the difference in knee angle is fine. We are asymmetrical beings clipping into a symmetrical bike. The body generally adapts…noted by the flexed prong on your ISM saddle. If the saddle is comfortable and you aren’t hurt/injured, then I wouldn’t worry about it. Trying to make everything perfect will not happen…there is just too much going on. If your ankle angle is different from one side to the other, it will change your knee angle…if you don’t sit perfectly center on the saddle it will change your knee angle…
Another explanation to the difference in knee angles is human error (marker placement).
your questions…
No
Not if you’re comfortable
That is a closed hip angle and 18 degrees is very low. What is the knee forward of foot?
You probably don’t want to target specific angles. Back angle isn’t a fiting “driver”, it’s a result of your fit. As you said, it is very individualistic. -J
This is exactly right…these angles are more of a “self check” during the fit process. If you find that a fitter is burying his or her head into the computer and saying “everything is within range” and they have hardly even looked at you…there’s a problem.
The fitter needs to know what a good position looks like and be able to work with the client to guide them towards a position that you both can agree on. Use the technology to aid this process, but the technology itself can not replace the fitter and their ability to work with the client to find a great position.
Thanks Mat,
Knee to foot forward is 93mm. From your experience, what hip angle range would you target for max power and still maintain a good aero profile?
Here’s kinda what it looks like:
We took measurements on the left and right side and noticed a difference in knee angle. So, we looked at the saddle the fitter noticed that one of the prongs on my Adamo Prologue was slightly bent down and we straightened it out (by bending in the opposite direction). Even after we made this change there was still a difference between L&R of 3 degrees: left knee angle @ extension: 38 vs 41 degrees on the right.
I haven’t read through any of the responses yet, but the difference in knee angle is fine. We are asymmetrical beings clipping into a symmetrical bike. The body generally adapts…noted by the flexed prong on your ISM saddle. If the saddle is comfortable and you aren’t hurt/injured, then I wouldn’t worry about it. Trying to make everything perfect will not happen…there is just too much going on. If your ankle angle is different from one side to the other, it will change your knee angle…if you don’t sit perfectly center on the saddle it will change your knee angle…
Another explanation to the difference in knee angles is human error (marker placement).
your questions…
No
Not if you’re comfortable
That is a closed hip angle and 18 degrees is very low. What is the knee forward of foot?
Hard to tell much from that pic other than it “looks good”, but other than that, it’s hard for me to see because of the angle.
A lot of this is going to depend on marker placement. Does everything feel good? That is what matters most. I generally have athletes at 47+, but it’s not really something I shoot for…If the back angle is already low and the hip angle is, say, 53…I don’t start lowering them more.
I probably shouldn’t have chimed in on the angle thing as I wasn’t there during your fit. Like I said, it looks good.
I just switched to this saddle due to a similar issue with bending prongs. The prongs are attached at the front, so it shouldn’t have the same problem. Not the lightest saddle around, but I like the design and the comfort.
