I am getting a running coach to help get me to BQ at a marathon 2 months before Ironman. 5 month build up. This will also be my second IM. He is ok with me doing masters swimming in the morning, but cycling he said is a no, or at least when the run volume picks up. I have completed 8 full marathons. Last year was something similar where I PRed at 3.5 hours 2 months before IM. But my IM was a disaster.
Anybody else pull this off successfully running a BQ before IM and still do well at IM? Any thoughts are welcomed… thx
My opinion is that you have a better shot at the other way around, especially if you are a borderline BQer. Do the IM first, then do the marathon. That way, you can drop the swimming and biking and concentrate on pure running without the worries of it affect your future triathlon. It’s hard to put in the required run mileage when you have to worry about biking and running, especially for a borderline BQer. Kona type guys can do whatever and still BQ. Us humans can’t get away with it too much.
The first time that I BQ (-29 seconds), I did it 10 weeks after an IM. The second time that I BQ (-4+ minute), it was 11 weeks after an IM. The third time that I BQ (-14+ minutes), it was 13 weeks after an IM.
It depends. For some a BQ time isn’t far off their target IM run time. So those individuals could in theory lace up the shoes 3-4 weeks after their IM and do a “easy jog” to a BQ without the nuisance of having to swim and bike beforehand. Of course those same folks would probably rather “race it” and go 30 minutes faster. It probably would only take a 8-10 week runs focus/build after a IM to run a good marathon time. Especailly if early in you annual plan you were training for a 70.3, which coincidentally is run at marathon pace.
Why muddle IM and marathon training together? Train or an early 70.3, it will get you somewhat marathon fit. Then focus on you IM, the 2nd 2/3rds of the season, then afterwards do a fall marathon.
Last year was something similar where I PRed at 3.5 hours 2 months before IM. But my IM was a disaster.
Anybody else pull this off successfully running a BQ before IM and still do well at IM? Any thoughts are welcomed… thx
I find IM training and marathon training to be similar but different. I always BQ. But the more I train for an IM the harder it is for me to get my legs loose and optimized for a marathon. The cycling strengthens my legs. But the downside is they lose something. Flexibility, I don’t know exactly what. My quads just don’t feel flexy and loose. I like training for both. But one of them needs to be your primary goal and the other has to be secondary, including the training for it.
I ran a marathon 2 weeks before a HIM last year. In the marathon I ran easy, never had to stop or walk, and BQ’d. 2 weeks later in the HIM on the run my legs felt tight and I was doing a landmark run. Too much walking and jogging. It wasn’t a terrible run, but it wasn’t a good one either.
There is also a significant drop off in my running MPW when I am IM training compared to marathon focused. There is only so many hours per week to spread around. My marathons are faster and easier when I have a high MPW focus.
it s a matter of what your priority are and how far are you from qualifying. you definitly dont give enough info for anyone but your coach to answer this one.
I am getting a running coach to help get me to BQ at a marathon 2 months before Ironman. 5 month build up. This will also be my second IM. He is ok with me doing masters swimming in the morning, but cycling he said is a no, or at least when the run volume picks up. I have completed 8 full marathons. Last year was something similar where I PRed at 3.5 hours 2 months before IM. But my IM was a disaster.
Anybody else pull this off successfully running a BQ before IM and still do well at IM? Any thoughts are welcomed… thx
I had seven weeks between my first marathon and my first ironman. In hindisght it was probably a poor decision. Having done neither beforehand I was under the illusion that a marathon was almost a preresquite for an IM. I managed to get a 35 sec BQ in the marathon (3:09), but didn’t get into Boston. I went 9:52 in the IM, but fell apart on the run. It can be done, but the IM won’t be pretty.
Just do Louisville, ride the bike at like 60%, stop take about a 3 hour break to refuel, relax… then BQ your IM run. I think its’ still a certified course.
It depends. For some a BQ time isn’t far off their target IM run time. So those individuals could in theory lace up the shoes 3-4 weeks after their IM and do a “easy jog” to a BQ without the nuisance of having to swim and bike beforehand. Of course those same folks would probably rather “race it” and go 30 minutes faster. It probably would only take a 8-10 week runs focus/build after a IM to run a good marathon time. Especailly if early in you annual plan you were training for a 70.3, which coincidentally is run at marathon pace.
Why muddle IM and marathon training together? Train or an early 70.3, it will get you somewhat marathon fit. Then focus on you IM, the 2nd 2/3rds of the season, then afterwards do a fall marathon.
I suspect these folks who can run IM run splits at BQ pace arent too worried about hiring a coach to BQ alone - that’s a pretty high level (like contending for the overall AG podium) if you can run that fast in the younger AGs in an IM.
I think it’s poor planning on your part. The other side of the coin is that not a lot of running only coaches have any idea about cycling.
but all in all I’m going with my initial thought especially given that the last time you tried it, one was a disaster.
It depends. For some a BQ time isn’t far off their target IM run time. So those individuals could in theory lace up the shoes 3-4 weeks after their IM and do a “easy jog” to a BQ without the nuisance of having to swim and bike beforehand. Of course those same folks would probably rather “race it” and go 30 minutes faster. It probably would only take a 8-10 week runs focus/build after a IM to run a good marathon time. Especailly if early in you annual plan you were training for a 70.3, which coincidentally is run at marathon pace.
Why muddle IM and marathon training together? Train or an early 70.3, it will get you somewhat marathon fit. Then focus on you IM, the 2nd 2/3rds of the season, then afterwards do a fall marathon.
I suspect these folks who can run IM run splits at BQ pace arent too worried about hiring a coach to BQ alone - that’s a pretty high level (like contending for the overall AG podium) if you can run that fast in the younger AGs in an IM.
I should have put that in pink.
I like most think combining marathon training with IM training is a bad idea if you’re looking for good results in both. You’ll ALWAYS be forced ot compromise. Not a lot of coaches out there that are probably qualified to guide you in a combined IM & marathon program.
I did a heavy run volume with almost zero biking in '12; goal was to bring my marathon times faster (which I did), but also I wanted to do 12 marathons in the year (2012) before my twins were born. Needless to say, my IMLP '12 was pedestrian at best. I thought I’d just go easy on the bike (which I did) and that I’d nail the run with my huge volume (if by nailed I meant walked a lot, then I nailed the run, ha).
I’ve BQ’d a few times, run Boston a few times, and run 40+ marathons and ultras (lost count). I’ve done two IMs. Both were just to do them, not Kona-minded or even close. Still, I’d say don’t neglect the bike if your IM time means something to you. I’m surprised your coach doesn’t view biking as a good cross training to add to run volume without the pounding.
I was in your shoes and did marathon before IM (3 months) I kept run volume high as for my marathon training (12-20 miles a day, which got me 2:59). Keeping the run volume high gave me confidence on what I could do in the run course, which should be 10-30 minutes slower than open marathon. I ended up doing 3:30 having the fastest run split of the day (it was a HITS race) off a somewhat hilly bike course (3600’ gain). For bike maybe I did 28 miles a day and 2 weekends with 100 miles thrown in (bike to 5k race, then bike, then another 5k off the bike). Swim I averaged 1000-1500 a day with some 3 swims over 3k.
I kept run volume high as for my marathon training (12-20 miles a day, which got me 2:59).
For bike maybe I did 28 miles a day and 2 weekends with 100 miles thrown in (bike to 5k race, then bike, then another 5k off the bike).
Swim I averaged 1000-1500 a day with some 3 swims over 3k.
So let’s rough calculate the time invested.
Run – oh, your MP was 6:50 so let’s assume a 7:30 training pace. That is 1.5 to 2.5 hours per day.
Bike – say 20 mph avg is another 1.5 hours.
Swim – probably 30 mins to an hour.
So you trained 3.5 to 5 hours a day during the week. Yeah, not many of us can do that, do our job well, be an active parent and retain a healthy marriage. I’m impressed if you can balance that much.
For bike maybe I did 28 miles a day and 2 weekends with 100 miles thrown in (bike to 5k race, then bike, then another 5k off the bike). Swim I averaged 1000-1500 a day with some 3 swims over 3k.
I almost literally had no biking. My longest of the year (with a race in July) was 40 miles. I did not get on the bike once a week. Maybe twice a month. My bike had dust on it when I took it down from the wall for that ride.
I kept run volume high as for my marathon training (12-20 miles a day, which got me 2:59).
For bike maybe I did 28 miles a day and 2 weekends with 100 miles thrown in (bike to 5k race, then bike, then another 5k off the bike).
Swim I averaged 1000-1500 a day with some 3 swims over 3k.
So let’s rough calculate the time invested.
Run – oh, your MP was 6:50 so let’s assume a 7:30 training pace. That is 1.5 to 2.5 hours per day.
Bike – say 20 mph avg is another 1.5 hours.
Swim – probably 30 mins to an hour.
So you trained 3.5 to 5 hours a day during the week. Yeah, not many of us can do that, do our job well, be an active parent and retain a healthy marriage. I’m impressed if you can balance that much.
run pace 8-8:30. bike 16-20mph (I almost never road my tri bike). swim (20-30min daily, longer maybe once every 2 weeks).
luckily I work at home, don’t have kids, but do have a healthy marriage.
For bike maybe I did 28 miles a day and 2 weekends with 100 miles thrown in (bike to 5k race, then bike, then another 5k off the bike). Swim I averaged 1000-1500 a day with some 3 swims over 3k.
I almost literally had no biking. My longest of the year (with a race in July) was 40 miles. I did not get on the bike once a week. Maybe twice a month. My bike had dust on it when I took it down from the wall for that ride.
It was a dumb idea.
the biking was what people would consider junk miles… commuting to grocery store, etc. If people would sacrifice luxuries like a car - more success would be had.