My Kick Just Slows Me Down. So Why Bother?

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m a M50-54 age grouper just starting my third season of triathlon. I’m a pretty good cyclist, average runner but horrible swimmer. To put this in context for you, I was a total non-swimmer when I started this two years ago, couldn’t swim even a length of the pool.

I know exactly what my problem is - I “swim uphill”. My butt and legs hang low in the water. I have worked hard to try to correct this - I have spent probably $2000 on swim lessons and workshops, and spent many hundreds of hours in the pool trying - but all to no avail.

I started with the six beat kick, then tried the two beat kick, now back to the six beat kick - no change.

Then this week, I tried something down the pool. Yesterday, I timed myself over a 1500m swim - 39 minutes.

Today, I timed myself with a pull buoy - 35 minutes. So my kick is actually slowing me down (and of course, this is further evidence of my “sinking legs”)

Now, here where I live in NorCal, all the swims are wetsuit legal. Presumably my wetsuit offers me similar buoyancy to a pull buoy.

So it occurred to me - why do I bother kicking at all? In a race, surely I’m better off just letting my legs trail behind me and let the wetsuit keep my legs high in the water?

What do you think?

I realize this is not a “good” or elegant solution to my problem, but it might be a practical one. And please note - I’m not chasing podium places here, my only goal is to get to T1 and see a few more bikes there other than just my own!

Thanks,

2

OK, M60-64 here, started swimming 2 years ago, same problem. And yes, when I do the timings I am significantly faster with the Pool Buoy. But, it also gives more flotation than a wetsuit does.

So, I continue to toil away, attempting to figure out how to get my legs and ass up so that I remain more streamlined in the water.

If I don’t kick when I’m wearing a wetsuit, my legs still sink, just not as much as when I don’t wear a wetsuit. So I need to kick enough to keep my legs on the surface and stay more streamlined in the water.

I suspect that even if you are able to keep your legs high without kicking, doing some kicking will help. But I’m not a swimmer so who knows.

3

I think that giving up is the best way to go. I also believe there was a post awhile back about someone who was caught shoving a cut up pull buoy into their wetsuit. Aim for that.

4

I hear you. I spent 23 years in the triathlon world swimming the exact same way. I feel you. 4 years ago I went full swimming and learned how to kick. It took me forever to ingrain the proper muscle patterns and recruitment. Learning proper balance and how to tip my CG forward and downhill was almost as hard as the kicking component.

In hindsight if i were to enter triathlon knowing what I know now. I’d probably swim with a pull buoy 90% of the time and wear the floatiest leg wetsuit I could find rather than take the time and effort it took me to learn how to integrate a kick. I was shocked at the wetsuit tech when I tried a Huub last year. Shocked. I guess if you have sinky legs in a wetsuit then I might re-evaluate that b/c that would be indicative of serious problems most likely. I mean the Huub I tried had my legs TOO high. I had to look up and ahead a bit to get my feet back in the water so I could kick. It was ill fitting and water was pouring in the top, but I have never swum so fast in my life I was nearly laughing out loud it was like being on a roller coaster ride.

Best of luck either way. Of course I’d love to hear about you mastering the kick battle, but that’s a tough call. Swim safe.

2 Likes
5

My $.02…

As part of the Guppy Challenge last summer, I did the Finding Freestyle option. Like you, my kick slows me down…to the point where I swim faster in a wetsuit if I just pull vs. kicking. IOW, if I kick when wearing a wetsuit, I go slower.

The FF was great in helping me learn how the kick should be incorporated into my stroke. It helped significantly with my swimming overall…but when I did my only race last summer, I started off kicking and quickly reverted to pulling. Net result - fastest swim (by pace) ever.

I have no doubt that I would not have achieved that swim had I not worked on my TOTAL swim mechanics. It helped my body position, it helped my catch, it helped my pull…and yes, it helped my kick. Not to the point where I “trust” it yet for a race, but I am getting there.

Since all my swims will be wetsuit legal (in Chicago), I will probably pull my way through them this year, but I keep working on my overall mechanics because it will make me a better swimmer. And honestly, do you ever want to get to a race and have them rule your “crutch” illegal that day?

That said, I do try and do one workout / week with my PB. Those workouts tend to be “faster” sets (relative to me ) to better simulate what I will do when I am racing.

6

Tigerpaws - which Huub wetsuit did you try?

1 Like
7

Even if you don’t kick you need to be trying to get more ankle flexibility. If your toes are pointing towards the bottom of the pool or lake, your feet are still slowing you down even if you have a good body position.

Part of the fun of doing multi-sport competition is to get as good as you can in each discipline. Kicking will eventually make you a better swimmer. Swimming is not just a necessary evil to suffer through until you get to your bike. When I started swimming as an adult, my kick would actually move me backward. I still have a weak kick but at least I go forward.

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8

Even if you don’t kick you need to be trying to get more ankle flexibility. If your toes are pointing towards the bottom of the pool or lake, your feet are still slowing you down even if you have a good body position.

This. Even a good kicker will have problems if the feet point down and not back, and this is one of the biggest flaws I see in AOS.

A good kick also drives body rotation and breathing, which makes the overall stroke smoother and easier.

John

9

Get in to duathlon. Seriously. Unless you’re content to forever come in to a near empty T1.

Your kick isn’t slowing you down. Your body position is.

I’m just going to say you’re probably trying hard but trying hard the wrong way. The whole swimming up/downhill thing is one of the first, and most basic concepts you need to tackle as a swimmer. I would honestly give up whatever it is you are doing and focus completely on that for a couple weeks. It will be worth the time invested, both in speed and your frustration over swimming =).

When I started, also as an adult, here’s what our coach made us do:
Swim 25m at a time. Arms by your side, face down, and just kick. Breathe whenever and as much as you need to. Relax, take it easy. Do this 4-8 times. Focus on pushing your chest down, looking down, etc. Play around with it and notice what happens to your hips and legs. Forget the pace clock even exists. When you breathe, your legs will drop and you’ll get out of position. Don’t worry about it.

Next, do the same thing but on your side. Focus on pushing your lower armpit in to the water, and see how that effects your hips and head. Keep your head perfectly in line with your spine. Breathe whenever you need to, and stay relaxed.

Back to your stomach, but with your arms out streamlined in front of you. Focus on pushing your chest down again. Repeat 4-8 times.

Back to your side, with one arm extended.

And so on, and so on. We spent a few WEEKS doing nothing but these basic drills, essentially not even taking a single stroke. Until we really felt the whole balance thing, or at least grasped it there was no point in introducing more difficult concepts and screwing the whole thing up.

Get the basics, and the rest will come.

3 Likes
10

Tigerpaws - which Huub wetsuit did you try?

I have no idea I will call my pal later today and ask him. I don’t do any OW or distance swimming any longer so wasn’t really tuned into the details of the suit, but since it was about 40 degrees out I was merely focused on not becoming a floating popsicle!

Edit: Just called and he picked right up you are in luck! It’s called an Aerious 4:4

11

Get in to duathlon. Seriously. Unless you’re content to forever come in to a near empty T1.

Your kick isn’t slowing you down. Your body position is.

I’m just going to say you’re probably trying hard but trying hard the wrong way. The whole swimming up/downhill thing is one of the first, and most basic concepts you need to tackle as a swimmer. I would honestly give up whatever it is you are doing and focus completely on that for a couple weeks. It will be worth the time invested, both in speed and your frustration over swimming =).

When I started, also as an adult, here’s what our coach made us do:
Swim 25m at a time. Arms by your side, face down, and just kick. Breathe whenever and as much as you need to. Relax, take it easy. Do this 4-8 times. Focus on pushing your chest down, looking down, etc. Play around with it and notice what happens to your hips and legs. Forget the pace clock even exists. When you breathe, your legs will drop and you’ll get out of position. Don’t worry about it.

Next, do the same thing but on your side. Focus on pushing your lower armpit in to the water, and see how that effects your hips and head. Keep your head perfectly in line with your spine. Breathe whenever you need to, and stay relaxed.

Back to your stomach, but with your arms out streamlined in front of you. Focus on pushing your chest down again. Repeat 4-8 times.

Back to your side, with one arm extended.

And so on, and so on. We spent a few WEEKS doing nothing but these basic drills, essentially not even taking a single stroke. Until we really felt the whole balance thing, or at least grasped it there was no point in introducing more difficult concepts and screwing the whole thing up.

Get the basics, and the rest will come.

This. Relax. Don’t worry about how fast you are. And just do those drills. Body position is everything. Proper balance in the water is essential to a proper body position. So you work on that balance. Gradually just like he said.

New swimmers should learn proper body position first, and then they should learn how to stroke. The other way around and you are swimming uphill.

1 Like
12

You might want to consider Roka sim shorts since they simulate a wetsuit better than a pull buoy does…

Joel

13

Train your weakness, race your strength.

It is worth it, IMO, to put the work into improving your kick, and body position in general. It’s a good tool to have available. But until such time as it actually works for you, then don’t bother in races, do whatever gets you to the finish line faster.

1 Like
14

I am one of the few fast swimmers (on here) who thinks kick is not that important.
It’s function-

  1. to maintain proper body position
  2. to provide lift when swimming “fast” so that you experience less drag.

It sounds like your kick is not fullfillling either of these functions.
You seem to have identified the problem, you are dragging your legs. And getting 0 lift. (A wet suit might help a little).
But why not try to fix the problem?

It is hard to drag your feet if your butt is sticking out if the water.
When coaching my kids yelling “butt up” seems to improve 100 time by about 10 seconds.

4 Likes
15

I am one of the few fast swimmers (on here) who thinks kick is not that important.
It’s function-

  1. to maintain proper body position
  2. to provide lift when swimming “fast” so that you experience less drag.

So, in other words, it’s important :slight_smile:

I agree that it is less important in distance swimming than sprinting, and even less important in wetsuit legal swims. However, the reason for putting the work in is so that the kick becomes more efficient, and consequently even LESS a drain on energy. If all you have to do to maintain a good body position is a little flick of your ankles every stroke, then that’s good and will make you faster overall.

3 Likes
16

Maybe it’s worth checking the swim smooth website.
They are classifying different swim types and there is one type (the “arnie”) that has the sinking legs as well. They have specific drills for this type of swimmers.
Can be helpful…

.

2 Likes
17

I think at the end of the day the freestyle stroke will continue to be what it is for most triathletes who have not grown up swimming: low dragging legs, snaking body and 100% arm reliant. Had I not had to abort tri due to knee/back issues and been forced into one stroke I’d still be swimming like I did for so many years I reckon. In the year 2042 there will be threads saying ‘why is my kick so bad’ and ‘how do i fix my kick’. Only difference will be someone posting a link to ‘use the search function’ and there will be 17,359 existing threads on it instead of the 8,211 that are in the repository now;)

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swimsmooth is a great resource.

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19

While the OP surely can improve his kick, I think he’s missing the bigger error, which is going to be the errant pull. At his paces of 2:00+/100, there is definitely going to be a significant stroke imbalance.

Contrary to what the OP thinks, it is almost certain he will be unable to swim with ‘no kick’, even with a pull buoy or wetsuit. To prove this, he just has to use a tight ‘ankle band’ (can make it out of an inner tube) to lock the ankles. I’ll bet 100% that even with a super floaty pull buoy to keep the legs from dropping, he’ll snake all over the place without the errant scissor kick to offset the stroke imbalance. Newer swimmers always think they can ‘not kick’, but if you video them and show it to them, they’re usually horrified with how big a ‘no kick’ effort is for them when they see a big scissor kick when they though their legs were still.

Working on the kick will only help very little for this real speed-killing problem that’s prevalent in those swimming slower than 2:00+/100, as the kick will remain permanently bad and errant until you fix the stroke error.

1 Like
20

Fix your stroke. You can use a wetsuit as a crutch and it will help, but your swimming technique will always hold you back. Swimsmooth has a lot of good information… including an excellent explanation of why a good kick is important, even for triathletes. A lot of open water swimming, and distance swimming in general, has traditionally emphasized a 2-beat kick, but many good distance swimmers and triathletes kick more. If you watch videos with Andy Potts, Jodie Swallow, and other triathletes who are noted for their swimming speed you will notice that they all kick quite a bit. There is also a trend in distance swimming to emphasize kicking more and more. Katie Ledecky’s dominance has been attributed to her kick.

Swimsmooth has a lot of good information. I love that site. It will help give you perspective (you sound like an Arnie) However, it’s still not the same as having someone on deck watching you swim, because swimmers are often unaware of what they are doing. I don’t know where you live in Northern California, but there are many excellent Masters programs available. Take advantage of one if you can, because developing a good (or at least better) stroke technique will help you more in the long run. My wife has improved significantly since she started swimming with me at Masters. It has taken her a long time, but it has been well worth it.