Osymetrics, thoughts from a different perspective

Triathlon Forum
1

I have been testing out some osymetrics as I liked the rotors so thought I would try something a little more severe so to speak.

They have got me thinking. Firstly I need to say this is not in any way scientific and my physics knowledge leaves a lot to be desired.
But here goes.

I have found the osymetrics a mixed bag, they feel awesome on the hills, but I have struggled a bit with them on the flats.
I changed my singlespeed back to a round ring and ‘feel’ (no way to measure power) that I may prefer the round ring over the osymetric.
My legs seem to like the application of force around the pedal stroke, compared to the slightly more choppy action of the osymetrics. I have a hip impingement problem and I have actually found sometimes that due to the sudden increase in pedal speed through the deadspot that I have not dorsiflexed my foot enough in time and my impingement is worse! This is helped by increasing the gear in the osymetric.

So, here goes for the thought process.
I have for the last few years done the majority of my riding, as almost all the hard stuff on a very very low inertia system. (rollers with headwind). This has ‘taught’ my legs to HAVE to pedal all the way around the circle, otherwise I would stop! This has been coupled with lots of mountain biking, which is known for increasing this pedaling in a circle action to deal with the low inertia of climbing rough hills.

Therefore I have always seemed to notice two things in races

  1. I prefer to be going uphill or into a headwind when inertia is low
  2. I don’t feel right on the flats or with a tailwind when inertia is low

I have recently changed to far more cycling outside, riding to the pool and back each day which having moved is nearly 2 hours riding.

So, could this be the reason I have struggled with the osymetrics?
The this is now, I am starting to get used to them, also I am no longer training on rollers, now on a KK with the pro flywheel.
I know the simple answer may be to go back to round, but I really want to investigate if the osymetrics work, as I do believe the ideas behind them. Plus on the rotors this year I ran off the bike much faster and fresher than I have done in previous years. Maybe a coincidence but that was the only thing that changed this year.
I aim to do much more testing to find out.

Now, this is only my experience. However, I did a small canvas of the people I know use osymetrics or rotors and those who have tried them and don’t like them.
The majority of the ones who use them do a fair amount of training outside.
The people I know of who tried and then decided it wasn’t for them, 4 out of the 5 of them do almost all of their training, over the winter particularly, on a turbo.
I also know a couple of people, who have changed from predominantly winter riding on the turbo to getting out and doing the training, both on osymetrics and have found their power on osymetrics has increased significantly.

Could this be coincidence? Or has anyone else got something different to add to mix?

2

Has their power increased significantly because they are riding osymetrics, because they rode through the winter, or because their PM measurement was off? Not being snarky, but there are a lot of variables in that statement.

If you’re going to stick with the Osy’s, try mounting them in the “optimal” position and see how that feels for you. They felt a lot better (for me) after I changed them around. (Not to shamelessly plug myself, but a picture of that setup is the new post on my blog…) :wink:

3 Likes
3

Yes, there are a lot of variables in all of those statements!
Hence why its just spit-balling.

now, this optimal position, i tried it yesterday, but think i got the ring bolting wrong, is it one forward, i.e turning the ring one hole forward, or backward?

2 Likes
4

I experimented with q-rings and decided they were the solution to a problem I didn’t have (major “dead spot” in my spin), but that others do. I was trained by some serious, but old-school cyclists back in the 90s about spinning in circles and how the spin comes from the hip and all that. I’ve spent countless hours on rollers. I’m not going to say it has made my pedal stroke more efficient as I know certain “experts” will jump all over that, bit it certainly has made it smooth and balanced. Q-rings felt totally wrong for me. But I know folks who are mashers who swear by them.

5

now, this optimal position, i tried it yesterday, but think i got the ring bolting wrong, is it one forward, i.e turning the ring one hole forward, or backward?

back twice I believe. On the picture on my blog you can see where the (outside) chain catcher pin is in relation to the crankarm (which is should be hidden behind if you installed them “correctly” from the box)

1 Like
6

I have been riding ossy rings for 3 years. All i can say is your muscles get used to it. After a while you will notice that it helps keep your muscles contracting in the natural up n down motions it is use to. A round ring tends to cause knee issues due to the unatural range of motion which involves your muscles contracting at awkward angles. Most people ive met that have rode round rings for a long time try ossy rings and give them up for knee problems or they thought it was causing there muscles to fatigue faster on the flats. Lets get something cleared up, it is NOT easier but gives you more propulsion from less watts and once you train your muscles for it you’ll see increases in strength n performance as well as a clean/healthy range of muscles contractions.

3 Likes
7

Ah, see thats where i was going wrong! I had it 1 hole forward!
Felt very very odd!

8

I ride the new (ramped and pinned) Osy’s and truly do love them. There is an adjustment period and I have never heard of or tried the ‘optimal’ position but would challenge you to consider one thing. Breakdown the optimal pedal stroke. Most will tell you that the proper pedal stroke is up/down, in all actuality the proper pedal stroke is out/down slightly dropping your heal as you crest the top of the stroke. This pedal stroke in conjuction with Osy’s incorporates much more of the muscle groups in your legs (i.e. glutes/hamstrings/quads) thereby producing more power and limiting fatigue of a particular muscle (all imho).
Once you change/adapt your pedal stroke to an out/down spinning at high rpm is a breeze.
Yes they are a little louder and do slap a little more but l love em (just wish they made a solid TT version for aesthetics)

2 Likes
9

I ride the new (ramped and pinned) Osy’s and truly do love them. There is an adjustment period and I have never heard of or tried the ‘optimal’ position but would challenge you to consider one thing. Breakdown the optimal pedal stroke. Most will tell you that the proper pedal stroke is up/down, in all actuality the proper pedal stroke is out/down slightly dropping your heal as you crest the top of the stroke. This pedal stroke in conjuction with Osy’s incorporates much more of the muscle groups in your legs (i.e. glutes/hamstrings/quads) thereby producing more power and limiting fatigue of a particular muscle (all imho).
Once you change/adapt your pedal stroke to an out/down spinning at high rpm is a breeze.
Yes they are a little louder and do slap a little more but l love em (just wish they made a solid TT version for aesthetics)

Nicely put. I agree. I just went from the 56t 2013 to a 52t 2014 ramped pinned and I like it but the 56t is still the most badass ring to ride.

1 Like
10

I ride a 54/44 and agree that the 56 is badass but simply too much for an all round road bike. I find the 44 (I run an 11-25) to be about right for most riding as I do hill repeats on a .25 - .5 mile hill that has sections as steep as 16% and gearing is about right for me. On the other hill which only peaks at 11% the 54 is also just right.
Not sure I could use a 56 for everyday riding, that is a pretty big gear.

11

people have been experimenting with non round chainrings for 100 years not and still no clear sign that they work.

It isn’t hard math. Put rings on, measure power (with a powertap), or time up a hill or time around a velodrome, did it go improve? Double check that a lot. We have had 100 years!

21 Likes
12

people have been experimenting with non round chainrings for 100 years not and still no clear sign that they work.

It isn’t hard math. Put rings on, measure power (with a powertap), or time up a hill or time around a velodrome, did it go improve? Double check that a lot. We have had 100 years!

Tom seems to think even a Powertap may not be totally accurate on non-rounds.

12 Likes
13

Doesn’t nlsckevin use Q rings? He’s faster than 99% of the folks on ST - that’s good enough for me to try them : )

1 Like
14

it’s a poor reason to buy/try them, just as selecting a bike based on who rides it is bad
.

15

“They COULD affect the PT on a trainer if the flywheel inertia isn’t high enough though…for the same reasons the crank based PMs are affected in high inertia environments. Sort of the flip side of the same coin…the constant rotational velocity assumption being the culprit. If you hear the rear wheelspeed varying during your trainer rides (“whoosh, whoosh, etc.”) then I would bet the PT is reading high.”

Was what I was referring to. I suppose it’s more in reference to the PT on a trainer though. Or the trainer being misadjusted. (Which would give bad information regardless of the rings)

10 Likes
16

Aaah…OK…yeah, for special cases like that…although, thinking about it some more, that might require a really low wheel speed as well (so that the variation within a single wheel revolution changes appreciably).

well I am pretty slow (sadly no pink)
.

8 Likes
17

people have been experimenting with non round chainrings for 100 years not and still no clear sign that they work.

It isn’t hard math. Put rings on, measure power (with a powertap), or time up a hill or time around a velodrome, did it go improve? Double check that a lot. We have had 100 years!

I am surprised it hasn’t been done yet. Get a bunch of riders on the same course or track and test the rings (Q, Osy, round) several times back and forth over a period of a few weeks. At least may provide some meaningful insight wrt if it works or not and who or what type of rider it works best for.

But what interests me more is the anecdotal testimony from those who claim they run better off the non round rings. Even if there is little to no advantage on the bike and it is helpful on the run.

5 Likes
18

Thanks Tom.
I did hear the chap who invented these talking about the paper and the ‘maths’ as he put it. And said it was sound in theory but didn’t play out in real life.

I have just had a play with them in the alt. position and it felt horrible! Felt like I was being rushed through 1-4, like the tyre was slipping then suddenly ‘catching’ The regular position feels much better for me.

1 Like
19

people have been experimenting with non round chainrings for 100 years not and still no clear sign that they work.

It isn’t hard math. Put rings on, measure power (with a powertap), or time up a hill or time around a velodrome, did it go improve? Double check that a lot. We have had 100 years!

I am surprised it hasn’t been done yet. Get a bunch of riders on the same course or track and test the rings (Q, Osy, round) several times back and forth over a period of a few weeks. At least may provide some meaningful insight wrt if it works or not and who or what type of rider it works best for.

But what interests me more is the anecdotal testimony from those who claim they run better off the non round rings. Even if there is little to no advantage on the bike and it is helpful on the run.

ok so saying just because Kevin Metcalf uses Q-rings is not a good reason to try them, but this is IMHO. I’ve talked with Todd and Lisbeth Kenyon (Kona AG winner) and both swear that the Q-rings help with the run. since I typically only do sprints, the run just off the bike is really important to me.

20

Aaah…OK…yeah, for special cases like that…although, thinking about it some more, that might require a really low wheel speed as well (so that the variation within a single wheel revolution changes appreciably).

well I am pretty slow (sadly no pink)

Well, to be fair…EVERYONE is slow on a trainer (you don’t actually move) :wink:

I’m not sure if you saw my edit above since you replied before I modified that post. Just thought I’d point that out in case you missed it.

yeah I guess tests was a bad way of putting it. As much as a test can be using machines instead of people.

Also I think “optimal” position would be tough to nail down no matter what… we are talking about rings that aren’t exactly proven to do anything, so finding the optimal setup of them would be tough. I do think that position feels better to me though.

4 Likes