Swim help: breathing

Triathlon Forum
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I know this has been covered at some level before but I wanted to get some specific advise.

Short version: Through various drills, coaching and just swimming it’s apparent my breathing is costing me valuable time and I don’t know how to fix it.

Long version (sorry, I like to type):

Started swimming in 2009 after a hip replacement put a stop to running. Was knocked off a ladder when I was 14 and broke my right hip, crushed my right elbow and broke the left one. Multiple surgeries and various pins and screws fixed things for a while but I finally had to get the hip replace a few years ago. Doc said no running for at least a year but I could bike and swim, so my triathlon adventure ensued.

Mostly self-taught swimming using ST and BT and a few coaching sessions. I was around 1:45 SCY swimming at peak (100 yard workouts) but it never translated to OWS times. I’ve done 4 HIMs and 1 IM with my best times being 41 minutes (Branson 2011) and 1:40 (Louisville 2012).

I’m decent at cycling and running. Even after a 46 minute swim in New Orleans HIM last year I managed a 5:19 finish. Not earth shattering but I don’t think too bad. I also ran a 1:30 HM last summer, so the hip is good now.

After tri season last year I decided to take time off swimming. Was tired of seeing little to no improvement. In January I started up again and decided to really start from scratch. Really focusing on form, drills, flip turns, etc., and seeing yet another coach.

I didn’t do flip turns before but figured I should probably learn given what I’ve read here and I figured it would only help with fitness. My flip turns suck but what’s weird is if my last breath is to my left then my turn is pretty good (nice straight tuck and roll). If it’s to my right then it’s an early turn twisting pretzel-like nightmare. Regardless of the technique it takes 3-5 strokes to get my breath back.

So, I’ve really tried to work on high-elbow and pull techniques. The coaching sessions I’ve been taking has given good feedback on my kick (my legs scissor when rolling side to side). These things have all helped but it’s still not getting me where I need to be.

I’ve incorporated a snorkel into my workouts. I warm up and then use the snorkel to specifically work on my elbow position and pull. I will do 100 swim and then 50 kick and then repeat that 4x. Every time I’ve gotten faster with each iteration. By the end I’m at 1:28 SCY and really not suffering too much. I feel like I could do this for a while, though haven’t tested it.

When I lose the snorkel I can hit 1:37 or so without going all out but maybe 90% effort.

Sorry for the long post, but it seems that lifting my head to breath is really causing a significant speed reduction and I’m not sure how to fix it. I’ve watched various videos and still haven’t been able to figure it out. When I breath to my right I keep one goggle under water but to the left I just suck in a bunch of water if I try to stay low. Frustrating.

Also, when I breath to one side I can feel the arm on the other side pulling down and causing more problems. Maybe I’m not breathing quick enough?

Anyway, I only gave the history to maybe add some context to my body positioning. My legs sink and I have a hard time moving my elbows. I’m only 42 but have had arthritis in the hip and both elbows for almost 30 years. I think I can get through the physical barriers but this breathing thing is perplexing to me.

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a quick drill that “might” help. do some kicking on your front, with one arm extended, no kickboard, and roll to breathe to the side. Try to keep your ear pressed against your shoulder as you roll to breathe, and make sure you are looking slightly behind you so you are breathing in the trough. If your kick is weak, you might want to use fins to give yourself a bit of a bow wave / trough to breathe from.

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a quick drill that “might” help. do some kicking on your front, with one arm extended, no kickboard, and roll to breathe to the side. Try to keep your ear pressed against your shoulder as you roll to breathe, and make sure you are looking slightly behind you so you are breathing in the trough. If your kick is weak, you might want to use fins to give yourself a bit of a bow wave / trough to breathe from.

Thank you for your response. I haven’t done much side kicking so will give this a go. Question: I do some swimming with fins each session and have gotten that trough effect but still seem to suck in too much water. Maybe I look too much to the side? Is looking more behind something that would help with that? It makes me panic a bit and causes my head to rise when I get water instead of air.

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You’re probably looking forward instead of to the side. by looking behind (slightly) you’ll be facing your mouth into the air gap and be able to breathe better.

BTW, I almost always take some water in my mouth when i breathe. just spit it out.

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Do you try to alternate breathing on both sides (i.e., every 3 or 5 strokes)? I’d work on just focusing on one side at a time if you’re not already. At least do an entire length breathing only to the weak side, if not an entire 50, and then switch sides if you feel the need to, rather than switching back & forth which tends to make it more difficult to isolate what you’re trying to work on.

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a quick drill that “might” help. do some kicking on your front, with one arm extended, no kickboard, and roll to breathe to the side. Try to keep your ear pressed against your shoulder as you roll to breathe, and make sure you are looking slightly behind you so you are breathing in the trough. If your kick is weak, you might want to use fins to give yourself a bit of a bow wave / trough to breathe from.

I’m not a big fan of having people look back because it can turn into a nasty habit, but it’s a minor point to your good advice.

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This is a problem that is tough to fix.

So you lift your head when you breathe, in reaction you push down into the water while breathing losing the front end of your stroke as you’re pushing down not pulling back.

Take it in stages:

  1. Are you rotating enough? When you breathe to that side, emphasize rotating your belly button to that side when you breathe. Very common in newer swimmers to not rotate well when breathing to your “other” side.
    I use something I call the Freestyle Kick Drill A for that particular skill, https://sites.google.com/site/kpjoubert2/freestylekickingdrills2 similar to what Jason described above.

  2. Same drill, very similar to what Jason described, do the FS Kick Drill to either side, make sure that as you breathe, your head is flat, not angled up that your hand stays up and extended not pressing down and that you have the one eye in and one eye out.

  3. Stick drill - this part works on the pushing down end of things. Do the stick drill, a 2 lb dumbbell works well for this part; stick drill doesn’t allow you to drop your leading hand down.
    http://acadianendurance.blogspot.com/2008/03/discussion-of-catch-up-and-stick-drill.html

  4. Catch up drill - you start with stick drill because it is very easy to fool yourself into thinking you are doing the catch up drill properly when you aren’t. At this point you do real catch up drill where your hands actually touch.

  5. Modified catch up drill - your hand stays out front only until the recovering hand touches the water.

Good luck, lifting your head to breathe is by far the most common error in adult onset swimmers and very difficult to fix.

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You’re probably looking forward instead of to the side. by looking behind (slightly) you’ll be facing your mouth into the air gap and be able to breathe better.

BTW, I almost always take some water in my mouth when i breathe. just spit it out.

Thank you.

Do you try to alternate breathing on both sides (i.e., every 3 or 5 strokes)? I’d work on just focusing on one side at a time if you’re not already. At least do an entire length breathing only to the weak side, if not an entire 50, and then switch sides if you feel the need to, rather than switching back & forth which tends to make it more difficult to isolate what you’re trying to work on.

I try to breathe bilaterally but often have to breathe single-side when I’m working hard. Definitely have more trouble breathing to the left.

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Thanks, Kevin, for the detailed response and links. I will read through them right away.

Regarding rotation. At times it seems really good according to a coach but then I get a bit disjointed at the hip where my upper body and lower body are not in sync and my legs scissor too much, I guess to help with balance. It’s most noticeable when breathing left side. I’ll work on that kick drill.

The most frustrating thing is I feel comfortable and connected when using the snorkel.

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The most frustrating thing is I feel comfortable and connected when using the snorkel.

Well, I feel comfortable and connected when riding my bike downhill :slight_smile:

Anybody can swim reasonably well when their not breathing, the breathing is the challenge, and that’s why it’s fun.

Kevin

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Totally a guess, but it strikes me that you might have something going on with kick timing - meaning the kick is synced up for decent breathing on one side, and out of sync on the other.

You also describe your legs sinking.

I’d be tempted to have you try a cheat / crutch, by using a pull buoy to keep the hips up. You can still even kick a touch. Just see what happens and see if you can get some clues as to whats going on.

Just something to try. Good Luck.

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I can’t help you with the swimming. I struggle with it all the time too. I’m just curious, what hip do you have? I have two Birmingham Hip Resurfacings. How is yours working out?

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Totally a guess, but it strikes me that you might have something going on with kick timing - meaning the kick is synced up for decent breathing on one side, and out of sync on the other.

You also describe your legs sinking.

I’d be tempted to have you try a cheat / crutch, by using a pull buoy to keep the hips up. You can still even kick a touch. Just see what happens and see if you can get some clues as to whats going on.

Just something to try. Good Luck.

I’m sure that is a problem as well. I have several problems kicking. Inflexible ankles. Doing some work each session with fins seems to help. I also do kick drills without fins and have definitely gotten better but still not good.

I feel like at times kicking slows me down so I’ve tried to calm it and focus on keeping my feet closer together. Also use a band around my ankles but that’s tough unless I add a buoy.

Have no clue on timing. I don’t feel coordinated enough to know when and how to kick in relation to the stroke so I just kick more as a survival instinct. I’ll look for some videos on that.

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I can’t help you with the swimming. I struggle with it all the time too. I’m just curious, what hip do you have? I have two Birmingham Hip Resurfacings. How is yours working out?

I have a Wright metal on metal with the larger head. I couldn’t do a resurfacing because I had a leg length difference that the full replacement was able to fix. I really wanted the resurfacing but this worked out the best to get things evened up. I have had some issues with muscles and tendons being stretched but nothing too serious.

It has been a life changer for me. Greater range of motion and not in pain all the time. I still and always will have some level of discomfort but I’m able to run and bike without pain for the most part. My doc isn’t particularly happy about it but I have his blessing. I’m sure I’ll need a revision some day but these larger heads are so much better for active people than the smaller ceramic ones.

How about yours?

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a quick drill that “might” help. do some kicking on your front, with one arm extended, no kickboard, and roll to breathe to the side. Try to keep your ear pressed against your shoulder as you roll to breathe, and make sure you are looking slightly behind you so you are breathing in the trough. If your kick is weak, you might want to use fins to give yourself a bit of a bow wave / trough to breathe from.

I’m not a big fan of having people look back because it can turn into a nasty habit, but it’s a minor point to your good advice.

I agree that it can. I was debating whether to put that in there, but I figured that because the op is probably looking forward, getting him to try to look slightly back will end up putting him in more or less the right spot. If the ear is on the shoulder, that’s a pretty good reference point.

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"How about yours? "

Right now, I’m at around 2.5 years. They were both done at the same time because of arthritis. I started running at 6 months and , wow, did it feel great! I tore a left glute tendon mountain bike crash last January but even with that I had a good year of short course racing last year. Righ now I’m working with a PT to stregthen my left side and I’m looking forward to some good races this summer.

Still struggling with breathing on my left side, nobody said this would be easy.

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I experienced the best improvements to the efficiency of my stroke and to my breathing after reading through and working on the things discussed in these articles:

http://www.h2oustonswims.org/articles_whole.html

I think this one in particular will help out with your breathing issue quite a bit.

http://www.h2oustonswims.org/articles/critical_mass_in_twilight_zone.html

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Thanks for the links. Ton of info on that site.

For anyone: I have a question related to 2 beat kick vs 6. I’ve read some articles and watched videos this morning. Seems to be split opinions on which is better. I doubt what I do now is even discernible.

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my thought on the kick is to use whatever works. Getting the proper timing down such that you can drive your body rotation and pull through your hips is more important than the number if times you are kicking. You can worry about the specifics once you have that aspect down.